Many historians and educators recognize two of America’s most pivotal civil rights eras: the aftermath of the Civil War and the revolutionary uprising of civil rights advocacy in the 1960s. But right now, Peniel Joseph, a professor of public affairs at the University of Texas at Austin and the author of the new book, The Third Reconstruction: America’s Struggle for Racial Justice in the Twenty-First Century, says we’re in the midst of another foundational moment that could define the fabric of the country.

While progress towards racial equality has been made, fragments of the Jim Crow era that civil-rights leaders like Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X combatted still exist. “Austin was living in one of the most racially economically segregated cities in the United States. So yes, the age of segregation and Jim Crow ended in one perspective, but it also continued,” Joseph said.

The author joined Evan Smith, CEO and co-founder of the Texas Tribune, at From Day One’s Austin conference to discuss the fight for equality in the 21st century, the strides the Black Lives Matter movement has made toward racial justice, and the damaging effects of the “lost cause” mythology about the Civil War. “Texas is one of the founding states of that ‘lost cause,’ and that’s basically this story that we tell ourselves about the Civil War and race and conflicts that turns white supremacists into heroes,” Joseph said. The effect is that it “really justifies moral violence and memorializes confederates who were betraying the union. And we make that story about honor, this story about heroism, this story about duty.”

Much of the conversation that emerged in the fireside chat was drawn from Joseph’s book, which chronicles how America’s reconstruction eras drew battles between supporters of multiracial equality and advocates of white supremacy. The book highlights how Barack Obama’s presidency and the ending of Donald Trump’s presidential term in 2020 helped define a new reconstruction period, and one that bears the same injustices as past eras. “A lot of what we witnessed in 2020 goes back 150 years ago, an America created after the Civil War,” Joseph said.

He asserts that the third reconstruction was sparked when Obama was elected President in 2008. While his presidency made Obama a “game-changing historical figure,” his political rise was built on a form of American exceptionalism that Trump’s presidency later debunked with the amplified voices of White supremacists and anti-Black groups.

Joseph admires the legacy of Obama, but feels his presidency painted an image of a flawed America that’s made huge steps toward a utopia of equality, using his story of political rise as proof. But the progress Obama often alluded to was deceptive in scale. “I believe in American exceptionalism,” Joseph said. “The danger is that, as we’ve seen, when you think about voter suppression, or when you think about the recurrence of antisemitism in Austin–and nationally and globally–progress is not linear.”

Throughout the discussion, Joseph explained how the stories Americans have been told by their parents and grandparents–whether true or not–have shaped their views and often blinded them to America’s true past and current state. “You can have a huge love of this country and also be critical of this country,” Joseph said. “There are narratives we tell ourselves about each other and the country we live in. A lot of what I do in the book looks at the way those narratives have been shaped since the Reconstruction era.”

Joseph said movements like Black Lives Matter is a resurgence of the activism of the civil rights era. While the BLM movement’s efforts to establish new political policies have been met with resistance, it has made a notable political and social footprint and placed a spotlight on groups within the Black community that are often neglected. “Black Lives Matter is this 21st-century abolitionist movement,” he said. “I think what’s really neat about Black Lives Matter, and I chronicle it in the book, is the way so many Black women were the architects and co-architects of that movement and they made an argument that all Black lives should matter. They were interested in folks that were disabled, and queer, trans, poor and HIV positive–all these groups of people who even within the Black community are marginalized.”

Wrapping up the conversation, Joseph suggested larger progress will be made when America starts looking at itself in the mirror, acknowledging the hideous scars of its past and treating its current wounds. “You can love a country and also critique it,” he said. “The fight is asymmetrical, but part of what I argue is that we tell ourselves a different story about America and American history. [Martin Luther King Jr.] called it a ‘bitter but beautiful struggle.’”

Joseph predicted it will take a certain kind of idealism “to get out of this mess.” Instead of vilifying people on opposite ends, he said it’s important we take another approach to help unify the country. “I don’t think the way out is by demonizing people you disagree with, or by dehumanizing the people you disagree with and having talks of violence and civil war.”

Earl Hopkins is a culture reporter for the Austin American-Statesman. He’s also a freelance music writer whose words can be found in Complex, MTV News, GRAMMY.com, Stereogum, UPROXX and other publications.